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Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas wins 1st place in women’s 500-yard NCAA title

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Im honestly not suprised about this xD I mean Im all in for gender equality but I dont think there was any equality here. A male born trans won a physical competition against women.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/03/17/trans-swimmer-lia-thomas-wins-womens-500-yard-ncaa-title/amp/

The image below is a south park episode were Randy Savage Macho man indentifies himself as a female and wins the Strong Women Competition 

FB_IMG_1647639884189.jpg

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What's the problem? Women are lighter, and slimmer which gives them less resistance from the water, allowing them to move faster. Saying there was no equality, and implying that the cis gendered women had no chance, is flat out wrong.

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Just now, The Blackangel said:

What's the problem? Women are lighter, and slimmer which gives them less resistance from the water, allowing them to move faster. Saying there was no equality, and implying that the cis gendered women had no chance, is flat out wrong.

I didnt say that the cis gendered woman didnt had any chance, the opposite, the natural born women didnt had any chance against the trans woman. There are things that women are better than man, far more actually. But in a physical competition (on average) man are better than women. And Im pretty sure those muscles did made far more difference during the race than the weight.

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9 minutes ago, The Blackangel said:

I still see no problem. They're all women. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Well one of them was born as a male and therefore stronger than the other women. Im not against her identifying as a woman, life is short and she can do with her life what she feels more confortable. But it was obvius that she was going to win, its like that same situation that happened a few years ago were a another Trans woman won a women wrestling competition.

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True those with a Y chromosome are built physically bigger and typically stronger, than those with two X chromosomes. But I still think the competition was fair enough for the points that I made earlier about women being slimmer and having less resistance in the water.

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This is something I've very on the fence about. I'm all in on trans' rights within the world of day to day life, but I do understand why it is such a difficult and divisive topic when it comes to athletic sports. People who are born male develop differently than those who are born female, I don't think that's open to debate. Because of that, It is possible that one may have an advantage over the other depending on the nature of the contest, but the focus should not be on weather or not trans-athletes competing is fair, but how to make it fair whilst still respecting a persons gender identity. It's not like that can't happen, it actually does happen with testing of hormone levels and an athletes body chemistry. There is this assumption that a sports governing body don't check this sort of thing, when they do. So if they find a trans' athlete has the kind of hormone levels and body chemistry that's within tolerance, I really don't see an issue.

 

I do believe in strict protocol over this though. If this was, let's say, "too liberal" I guarantee people would try to exploit it. I would also stand by a decision to not permit trans-athletes to compete in combat sports because allowing that could potentially be very dangerous, and safety has to be priority one every time.

Edited by Shagger
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I am aware of one particular experiment that was done with a competitive cyclist.  The subject was biology assigned male at birth and her performance was tested (I think it was the 400m) before beginning her treatments.  After completing hormone treatments her performance was tested again and they found that her performance had decreased by around 11%.  This was the EXACT gap between current world records between men and women in that event over that distance.  It seems that were similar experiments being done in various track and field sports and believe swimming as well producing similar results.

 

I'm not taking this as a general thing, It's possible these kind of results won't be in every competitive sport.  What I will say is if a sporting body decides impose any restrictions on Trans people competing then that decision has to be based on verifiable scientific evidence and not opinion.  Not just for the sake of fair play but as to not encourage anybody to transition for the wrong reasons.

Edited by Crazycrab
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I'm all for letting people change their gender in society if that makes them feel better, but changing your gender from a societal point of view does not mean you can completely change your biological sex. And if your biological sex gives you an advantage in most physical sports over your peers, then it is not fair. And will cause women who are born female to be less inclined to enter various sports if someone else can beat them by putting in half the effort or less.

I think it is very hypocritical that the same people who swear by science when discussing religion and the pandemic tries to deny science when it comes to transgenderism.

Edited by m76
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3 hours ago, m76 said:

I think it is very hypocritical that the same people who swear by science when discussing religion and the pandemic tries to deny science when it comes to transgenderism.

 

If you think that then your not very well educated on the science.  I'll admit untill maybe a year ago I didn't know much about it either.  I want to make it clear hear what I'm about to discuss here is medical science.

 

It all comes down to a condition called Gender Dysphoria.  It basically means that a person isn't comfortable with or just doesn't feel like someone of their biologically assigned at birth.  If untreated it can lead to a multitude of physiological issues like depression and anxiety.  I seen multiple interviews with Trans people all saying the same thing, that they "didn't feel comfortable in their own skin".  Posted below are a number of sources on the subject from the UK's National Health Service (NHS) and the American Psychiatric Association.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/#:~:text=Gender dysphoria is a term,harmful impact on daily life.

 

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

 

So you see, by saying that a transgender woman is a woman or vice versa.  I am in agreement with science.  Someone can be mentally wired differently than their physical gender in the same way that a man could be attracted other men instead of woman, or a kid who hates the taste of chocolate or whatever.

 

As to the issue of whether someone who was assigned a different gender at birth to their gender identity has an unfair to advantage in a particular competition.  You need to determine not with assumptions or opinions but actual tests and experients 2 things:

  1. That one gender has a significant advantage over the other in the first place.
  2. That the same advantage carries over at some point over the transition process.

I have heard of a number of sports (including the cycling one I mentioned earlier) where the initial advantage does not seem to carry over post transition.  Their is probably some where it does but it's case by case and there are still to many sports who's policy are still based on old prejudices and assumptions rather than legitimate scientific evidence.  If they have done their experiments and they can prove that a transgender athletes do have an unfair advantage then I'm 100% for restricting where they can complete, but do the science.

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A running theory about transgender people is that while in utero, the body develops as one sex, yet the brain develops as the other. So that means that while someone was AMAB, their mind and brain is female. They can't stand looking down and seeing their penis. They've thought the way those that were AFAB do, and vice versa. It's not proven, but it is the leading theory. I know someone who is transgender, and she hates her penis so much that she has almost cut it off herself many times. It makes her sick just knowing that it is there. She's a bitch, but I can understand her struggle. I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community too.

Edited by The Blackangel
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On 3/25/2022 at 4:14 PM, The Blackangel said:

A running theory about transgender people is that while in utero, the body develops as one sex, yet the brain develops as the other. So that means that while someone was AMAB, their mind and brain is female. They can't stand looking down and seeing their penis. They've thought the way those that were AFAB do, and vice versa. It's not proven, but it is the leading theory.

 

Nobody really knows the root cause of Gender Dysphoria, but that's probably most sound theory.

 

4 hours ago, Jayson said:

I would comment on this one.   How can I comment? 

 

If you have something to add that's on topic and meets the community guidelines then sure, of course you can comment.  

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5 minutes ago, Jayson said:

A situation like this isn't fair because obviously the athlete is more powerful due to the fact she hasn't been transformed enough into a female.

 

You clearly didn't bother to read the rest of the thread, so why should anyone care what you have to say?

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