Jump to content
Register Now
GUERILLA

WORST FAIL in game developer history making a comeback?

Recommended Posts

A camera that moves Independently of your input is a huge troublemaker because it so commonly interferes with your perspective

you know what I'm talking about... that system where the camera always swings behind your character whenever you move in any direction forcing you to feather the stick so you can maintain the perspective you want

I've always called this horrible video game fail "auto pan"

Uncharted 4 calls it "camera assist"

this system forces you to "drive your character" as if you have to put them in a positions... stop, and then look because you effectively have to fight the camera to look in One Direction and move in another

I believe this system was installed in early games as a "training wheels" theory to help players orient their camera but (just like training wheels) it limits your ability to look and move simultaneously causing your character to steer like a boat

most modern Blockbuster hits have abandoned this old trope and some are smart enough to have a system that you can turn off or on

I was horrified to learn the last two games I bought have no way to shut this Troublesome camera off so every time my character moves in any direction the camera tries to swing behind them as if it's trying to get a peek at their ass

this makes it difficult to effectively Strafe or step up to the edge of a drop off while looking down to precisely stop your character at the edge

some games are smart enough to have a look or aim feature that disables the dreaded "auto pan"
if only for a moment

Auto pan is not universally bad, it can be a really cool as long as its not universal whenever you move

I love the auto pan attached to the dash system of Gears of War because you can effectively use it as a quick glance and when your character dashes the camera tightens and shakes in a Super immerse feature that makes your character feel like they have weight and momentum

My gaming background is primarily in military simulation shooters and Action Sports titles however I love martial arts as well and used to play a lot of Fighters

I've noticed this feature is most common in Nerdy RPG style games

It's really Troublesome to see it creeping back in to video game design for some weird reason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play alot of 3rd person type action games and RPGs like Assassins Creed, Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted and so on and I'd have to disagree with you.  I usually hold the left "movement" stick in the forward position and the right "camera" stick to effectively steer.  That way I'm always facing where I'm going and even if I need to adjust like tot to scan some of the terrain on the right I simply push the left stick left to keep my character moving in the right direction.

 

Generally the only times (at least percivablably) when the camera moves without any input that I can recall is when climbing.   The camera pans and circles around and you move up, down and around different faces on the wall, cliff or whatever... and that's exactly what I want and expect it to do.  The only times I would want the camera to point in any direction other than directly at me and the face of what I'm climbing on is if I want to  look at where I want to climb next or to look straight down to check the terrain is safe before I drop. Then after I drop I obviously want to level out automatically because it's obvious I don't want to move forward while staring at the floor!  If I had to make every adjustment manually it would be a pain in the ass!  It's not like these are new mechanics, they've been around since the early days of the Playstation One and Nintendo 64.

 

2 hours ago, GUERILLA said:

My gaming background is primarily in military simulation shooters and Action Sports titles however I love martial arts as well and used to play a lot of Fighters

I've noticed this feature is most common in Nerdy RPG style games

 

You see now that's your problem, you can't cant compare games like these down to the bare mechanics like your doing becuase they are fundamentally diferent.  Games like Gears of War generally have a more linear design where most of your focus is on the goal and enimies that are in front of you.   It's also gennerally the same gameplay beat of moving to cover, shooting down enough of the enemy until you can make it another spot and and do it moving to the goal.  It's focues on strafeing and charging forward and your not really concenrd with what's already dead behined you.

 

You see now that's your problem, you can't compare games like these down to the bare mechanics like you're doing because they are fundamentally different.  Games like Gears of War generally have a more linear design where most of your focus is on the goal and enemies that are in front of you.   It's also generally the same gameplay beat of moving to cover,shooting down enough of the enemy until you can make it another spot and and do it again moving to the goal.  It's focused on strafing and charging forward and you're never really concerned with what's already dead behind you.

 

In "Nerdy RPG's" which generally have an open world design the in game mechanics you use including the camera are obviously going to be designed differently because in a game like this the goal can be in multiple ways that the player needs to be able to control.  This might include things like stealth, the aforementioned climbing and multiple combat options at different ranges..  So the camera design in a game like that has more focus on being able to scan the environment rather than driving them forward at where they need to go.

 

I think I tried to explain in another thread of yours that the systems that work in type of gameplay don't necessarily work in another.  Like the same strafing movement and gun mechanics that exist in Gears of War aren't needed in something like Assassin's Creed Odyssey.  The same stealth and climbing mechanics that exist in Assassin's Creed Odyssey aren't required in Gears of War.  That's why their in game systems, including the camera, are designed differently.  You seem to have this black and white idea that what works in one game will alwys work in another but that's just simply not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, GUERILLA said:

A camera that moves Independently of your input is a huge troublemaker because it so commonly interferes with your perspective

It's really Troublesome to see it creeping back in to video game design for some weird reason

Not just nerdy RPGs but many FPS and the survival games too have that camera approach. I think it all depends on the execution from the game studio. each dev studio has it differently. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, skyfire said:

Not just nerdy RPGs but many FPS and the survival games too have that camera approach. I think it all depends on the execution from the game studio. each dev studio has it differently. 

It's actually impossible for a FPS to do this because the camera is affixed to your look direction since its 1st person (like it should be in 3rd)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

I play alot of 3rd person type action games and RPGs like Assassins Creed, Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted and so on and I'd have to disagree with you.  I usually hold the left "movement" stick in the forward position and the right "camera" stick to effectively steer.  That way I'm always facing where I'm going and even if I need to adjust like tot to scan some of the terrain on the right I simply push the left stick left to keep my character moving in the right direction.

 

Generally the only times (at least percivablably) when the camera moves without any input that I can recall is when climbing.   The camera pans and circles around and you move up, down and around different faces on the wall, cliff or whatever... and that's exactly what I want and expect it to do.  The only times I would want the camera to point in any direction other than directly at me and the face of what I'm climbing on is if I want to  look at where I want to climb next or to look straight down to check the terrain is safe before I drop. Then after I drop I obviously want to level out automatically because it's obvious I don't want to move forward while staring at the floor!  If I had to make every adjustment manually it would be a pain in the ass!  It's not like these are new mechanics, they've been around since the early days of the Playstation One and Nintendo 64.

 

 

You see now that's your problem, you can't cant compare games like these down to the bare mechanics like your doing becuase they are fundamentally diferent.  Games like Gears of War generally have a more linear design where most of your focus is on the goal and enimies that are in front of you.   It's also gennerally the same gameplay beat of moving to cover, shooting down enough of the enemy until you can make it another spot and and do it moving to the goal.  It's focues on strafeing and charging forward and your not really concenrd with what's already dead behined you.

 

You see now that's your problem, you can't compare games like these down to the bare mechanics like you're doing because they are fundamentally different.  Games like Gears of War generally have a more linear design where most of your focus is on the goal and enemies that are in front of you.   It's also generally the same gameplay beat of moving to cover,shooting down enough of the enemy until you can make it another spot and and do it again moving to the goal.  It's focused on strafing and charging forward and you're never really concerned with what's already dead behind you.

 

In "Nerdy RPG's" which generally have an open world design the in game mechanics you use including the camera are obviously going to be designed differently because in a game like this the goal can be in multiple ways that the player needs to be able to control.  This might include things like stealth, the aforementioned climbing and multiple combat options at different ranges..  So the camera design in a game like that has more focus on being able to scan the environment rather than driving them forward at where they need to go.

 

I think I tried to explain in another thread of yours that the systems that work in type of gameplay don't necessarily work in another.  Like the same strafing movement and gun mechanics that exist in Gears of War aren't needed in something like Assassin's Creed Odyssey.  The same stealth and climbing mechanics that exist in Assassin's Creed Odyssey aren't required in Gears of War.  That's why their in game systems, including the camera, are designed differently.  You seem to have this black and white idea that what works in one game will alwys work in another but that's just simply not the case.

 the camera system that Gears of War and Assassin's Creed Odyssey is the exact same (despite the fact that one is a shooter and one is a slasher)

Your look camera is always a fixed to your look stick and never moves independently

In games like GTA and sekiro wherever you walk the camera violently swings behind you in Chase mode making it impossible to effectively strafe or walk to an edge or precipice without Feathering your look stick (even though one game is a shooter in one game is a slasher)

 thats a perfect example of zero consistently throughout the industry...

Games that are really well-developed like Uncharted 4 have the ability to turn this feature off or on which is pure genius but having it integrated into a camera system so that you cannot turn it off is a giant fail because some of us want to be able to look in One Direction and walk in another without having to fight a camera that is constantly trying to swing behind you 

A cam that automatically pans in the direction you're moving is a childlike training wheels style of camera control

 I can look in One Direction and walk in another totally independently in real life... there's no Magical Force constantly trying to turn my head in the direction I'm moving

This is a very simple silly and archaic Vestige of old school RPGs trying to appeal to people who have poor coordination  because it never exists in competitive multiplayer or sports titles since it confounds perspective

 take the training wheels mentality away from camera control and give us completely independent player-controlled cameras from now on

let my computer character look in One Direction and move in another!!!

 I don't want to drive my character like a boat

 

Edited by GUERILLA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camera control is always a difficult topic for developer. 

Even for FF7 remake this kind of masterpiece, many players still cannot feel well for the camera and complain the camera is moving too quickly.

No need to mention some games even make use of camera to kill players - e.g. Dark Soul XD 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...