Should we just support indie games at this point?

[Kane99]

If it isn't EA making the news for dumb things they do, it's Activision, Blizzard, Take-Two, Rockstar, Ubisoft or some other big corporate run gaming company that just keeps making horrible mistake after mistake. Games are released broken, full of microtransactions, and deceptive practices, and yet we still support a lot of them. Half the games these big time studios makes, are bugged messes, yet indie developers seem to do much better work with their games, at least in terms of optimization. Anyway, what I'm saying is this, do you think that Indie games will be the way to go for gamers? Or will these big companies start to shape up and start to fix their errors? I'm starting to think no, because it seems companies I once respected, like Take-Two/Rockstar, have become nothing but greedy. 

I know I'm probably a broken record at this point, but it really says something if some of the biggest gaming companies out there, are destroying their own reputation with each mistake they make. 

At this point, I kinda want to just focus on the indie titles, because supporting the majority of the big companies isn't helping anymore. 

[Shagger]

It's never as well publicised, but a lot of shady shit happens within the indie game scene. Asset flipping, crowdfunding scams, prejudice (like denying game keys to people because the support pride on social media), suing over bad reviews, DMCA abuse against YouTubers who call them out, it's all happened before. The Sentinels of the Store and YouTubers like SidAlpha sadly have plenty of to talk about and are kept busy by indies for, unfortunately, very good reasons.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Shagger

[Kane99]

16 minutes ago, Shagger said:

It's never as well publicised, but a lot of shady shit happens within the indie game scene. Asset flipping, crowdfunding scams, prejudice (like denying game keys to people because the support pride on social media), suing over bad reviews, DMCA abuse against YouTubers who call them out, it's all happened before. The Sentinels of the Store and YouTubers like SidAlpha sadly have plenty of to talk about and are kept busy by indies for, unfortunately, very good reasons.

Oh I believe it. There are bad eggs on each side of the fence. I know Steam is full of games that are just asset flips with really bad coding. I can see some suing over bad reviews. I remember Jim Sterling I think it was, he talked about a game that was just an asset flip essentially, and they ended up suing him. The game was basically a unity asset with assets lol. 

But yeah, indie devs/studios can be just as bad sometimes. I'll for sure have to check those channels out now. 

[Shagger]

5 minutes ago, Kane99 said:

Oh I believe it. There are bad eggs on each side of the fence. I know Steam is full of games that are just asset flips with really bad coding. I can see some suing over bad reviews. I remember Jim Sterling I think it was, he talked about a game that was just an asset flip essentially, and they ended up suing him. The game was basically a unity asset with assets lol. 

But yeah, indie devs/studios can be just as bad sometimes. I'll for sure have to check those channels out now. 

 

Ah, yes, the Digital Homicide fiasco, they more like Digital Suicide really. I remember that well.

 

 

[Withywarlock]

Depends on what you mean by 'indie', because the term has long outgrown meaning the rubbish you'd see thrown up on the Xbox LIVE Arcade, back in 2008 where Castleminer Z was the most successful game because Minecraft wasn't there at the time. Point to a popular indie game and there's a good chance it's far from independent, usually having a 'AA' publisher behind it, or some unknown entity wanting to skim heavily the profits for the little marketing and admin they've actually done.

Not to mention 'support' is limited also. Most game platforms take a 30% cut anyway or offer pre-order discounts, so unless you're buying it from the developer's site on day one whilst keeping it wishlisted and upvoting every news post, you could do a whole lot more to support them. But that's too much of a hassle for enough people. 'Support' these days tends to just mean 'buy' whilst feeling good about satisfying another impulse purchase.

This is ignoring the more common problems such as inexperience, budget, overreliance on famous names and the vast spectrum of problems that come with too little budget, which is likely as many as too much budget (see so-called AAA games). Neither is superior in every aspect.

I reckon change to 'AAA' has to come from within, not from us. It's not going to be a moment of enlightenment or reaching zen or CHIM, but worry that their budgets aren't sustainable and they need to get their act together. When that will happen I can't say. But I know for a fact what will happen afterwards: indies will become 'AAA', as John Carmack and Todd Howard and other bedroom programmers eventually did, leading to what we have today. Because indies are human, and they like money.

[Empire]

So you support the big companies recycling the same shit every yr? Im not a huge indie games person, but the state of games (in general) is getting fuckin ridiculous (unfinished games, DLC/microtransactions, etc.). Gamers could influence this if we just stopped buying the same shit every year and made companies innovate.

[Withywarlock]

49 minutes ago, Empire said:

So you support the big companies recycling the same shit every yr? Im not a huge indie games person, but the state of games (in general) is getting fuckin ridiculous (unfinished games, DLC/microtransactions, etc.). Gamers could influence this if we just stopped buying the same shit every year and made companies innovate.

Not sure if this is being addressed to me, what with it being directly below, but my answer would be that I don't like the model, but sure, I give financial support to it regardless because I want the games it offers. I support them in the sense I buy the Call of Duty that interests me, maybe some other so-called 'AAA' title that's on a steep discount, and that's typically about it. Not that it matters because there's simply not enough people making radical enough changes. I've long accepted that after 10 years of learning industry practice. I'm exhausted being a consumer advocate for consumers that don't want to be advocated for, after spending ages not preordering, buying new, 'supporting' AA and indies and everything beyond and between, and slamming my keyboard as hard as I can telling others to do the same. I can't be arsed being this emotionally invested in the hobby anymore. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

The key word in this is "gamers could" but the evidence is there that we don't do enough. It's unlikely enough of us ever will. Given how gaming makes money hand over fist each year (granted, there may come a dip when we see the tail end of coronavirus), I just don't see any proof that it'll be customers who make the changes unless they just lose interest in something. See the zombie survival craze being overshadowed by hero shooters overshadowed by battle royale, and one day even that genre will be overshadowed by something else and everyone will go crazy for it and support it, in whatever fashion.

I'll stop 'supporting' companies when they stop doing things I enjoy, independent or otherwise. I like what is offered in DLC, microtransactions, and battle passes. I'd prefer it to be free, but I've had my say over the years, I've joined many failed boycotts, and have just joined what seems to be everyone else in handing over their money with gritted teeth.

My initial point was that there's a lot of evangelising of indie developers when in truth everyone is human and has their own skeletons in their closet; it's just that bigger companies have more people, and that's more room for unlocked closet doors. If indies were given half the chance, they'd screw up as much as the so-called AAA. That's how these companies became that way in the first place. Electronic Arts was a beloved point-and-click adventure game studio and publisher. Activision made beloved arcade games for consoles.

My apologies for getting so heated, but I really do feel strongly about the fact that for every one of us who hates certain business practices, who actually puts their money where their mouth is, there's thousands of people who will make up the losses time and time again. And I've spent too much time and energy trying to change things.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Withywarlock
Additional information regarding my original point.