Thugs as Leaders

[Jayson]

Unlike leaders whom some claim are immature, leaders like Putin are very capable and tough.  Nonetheless, they are also tyrannical.  I suppose a good leader could show some hold off some thuggish tendencies - cause it can go too far.  Nonetheless, Putin has built up Russia from the 90s when it was beaten down so bad.  I can't really blame him.   However, though, could a truly democratic leader - as in they don't resort to Mafia tactics, done the same?

Edited February 20, 2022 by Jayson

[Reality vs Adventure]

There are way too many Putin sympathizers in the USA. I wonder if they would even fight for America or side with Russia if we were ever in a war. A lot of treason going around from right wingers. Not to say you are with them, but you are getting borderline if you even show any kind of respect for authoritarians like Putin. Strong leaders are righteous leaders. 

Asking the question if a democratic leader could have done the same as Putin just belittles democratic governance as if you assume things can only be achieved through thuggish tactics. If you showed a bit more respect to democratic leaders and not Putin, then maybe you can inspire your peers instead of their anti American values inspiring you. In other topics you say trump is bad, you say thuggish leaders is bad, and I respect that, but you got me wondering what it is you really believe because you respect Putin while he is about to invade another country. And there are pro Russian rebels in Ukraine who are now fighting. My question is how many pro Russian rebels are in the USA?

So before you bring questions like this to the table whether or not democratic leaders can be as great as Putin as if he is some great leader, ask yourself what kind of people are you hanging out with that inspires this kind of sympathy for murdering leaders. 

It's not even a debate to be had and I get the feeling you are here to plant seeds in people's heads to sympathize with Putin in his attack on another country. And you claim to be conservative and liberal, but all I've seen come from you is right wing debates. I don't mind debating, but I don't want to be lied to. Maybe you do think trump is bad, but you probably even voted for him in 2020, so maybe you are fresh out of the cult and still have lingering effects. I don't know. Maybe you just wanted to pacify people by saying you were both conservative and liberal. You definitely are closer to the far right than you may be aware of. And even hinting that Putin is a great leader while questioning democratic leaders is greatly offensive to me. 

[Crazycrab]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:42 AM, Jayson said:

Unlike leaders whom some claim are immature, leaders like Putin are very capable and tough.  Nonetheless, they are also tyrannical.  I suppose a good leader could show some hold off some thuggish tendencies - cause it can go too far.  Nonetheless, Putin has built up Russia from the 90s when it was beaten down so bad.  I can't really blame him.   However, though, could a truly democratic leader - as in they don't resort to Mafia tactics, done the same?

 

Have been watching the news lately?   Do you see what's going on in the Ukraine?  Here you are describing Putin as "capable and tough" and has "built-up Russia from the 90s".  Putin is a scumbag, there's no other word for it.  He bullies his own people and neighbors, not to mention he's openly homophobic and sexist to boot.  He is the very definition of a "Thug as a leader".

[Jayson]

On 2/21/2022 at 5:26 AM, Crazycrab said:

 

Have been watching the news lately?   Do you see what's going on in the Ukraine?  Here you are describing Putin as "capable and tough" and has "built-up Russia from the 90s".  Putin is a scumbag, there's no other word for it.  He bullies his own people and neighbors, not to mention he's openly homophobic and sexist to boot.  He is the very definition of a "Thug as a leader".

Well, Stalin built up the Soviet Union.  Hitler built up Germany.  Just because that's the truth, doesn't condone the methods of doing it, necessarily.  Yeah, Putin has resorted to thug tactics in response to Yeltsin's inability to fight corruption following the end of the Cold War, just like the Nazis seemed "in charge" after the weak Weimar Republic.

[Reality vs Adventure]

10 hours ago, Jayson said:

Well, Stalin built up the Soviet Union.  Hitler built up Germany.  Just because that's the truth, doesn't condone the methods of doing it, necessarily.  Yeah, Putin has resorted to thug tactics in response to Yeltsin's inability to fight corruption following the end of the Cold War, just like the Nazis seemed "in charge" after the weak Weimar Republic.

Stalin committed genocide on his own citizens. Hitler also committed genocide on his own citizens. ENOUGH SAID. Do you even have a point other than to praise thuggish leaders? 

[Jayson]

On 2/27/2022 at 6:42 PM, Reality vs Adventure said:

Stalin committed genocide on his own citizens. Hitler also committed genocide on his own citizens. ENOUGH SAID. Do you even have a point other than to praise thuggish leaders? 

Democratic leaders haven't been so great either often.   Why didn't the USA's democratically elected leaders stop Jim Crow or slavery?    What other offenses have popularly elected leaders done elsewhere?

[Reality vs Adventure]

21 hours ago, Jayson said:

Democratic leaders haven't been so great either often.   Why didn't the USA's democratically elected leaders stop Jim Crow or slavery?    What other offenses have popularly elected leaders done elsewhere?

This country fought a civil war that ended slavery. Jim Crow laws were mostly in the south who couldn’t accept blacks as being free after the war. Overall, democratic leaders around the world have brought a lot more quality of life to its citizens. But why am I talking to another American about democratic values, as if you are against it? What a shame.  

[Jayson]

5 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

This country fought a civil war that ended slavery. Jim Crow laws were mostly in the south who couldn’t accept blacks as being free after the war. Overall, democratic leaders around the world have brought a lot more quality of life to its citizens. But why am I talking to another American about democratic values, as if you are against it? What a shame.  

Well, there was a lot of "rubbing it in" going on after the war.  Nonetheless, I don't if I can't really blame the North.   Nonetheless, the approach created a lot of hate between blacks and whites - and it probably contributed to the harsh crackdown once Union troops left.   

Anyway, human nature isn't always "peaches and sunshine".  You had blacks possibly wanting violent revenge for being slaves.  You had humiliated white people who were also war ravaged.  You had Union troops also wanting revenge.

 

[Justin11]

To be frank, showing toughness and trying to be hard isn't a good quality of a leader. I don't like a situation where a leader should be thuggish, even if the power is rest on him, it should be used wisely. 

[Jayson]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:46 PM, Justin11 said:

To be frank, showing toughness and trying to be hard isn't a good quality of a leader. I don't like a situation where a leader should be thuggish, even if the power is rest on him, it should be used wisely. 

I think being macho is always a good quality for a leader, a husband, a father etc.  Nonetheless, it can go into overkill, where it's not too cool.  You simply come across as being a jerk.  However, people who abuse the male image totally think pushing things to the limit is the way to be.    The outgrowth of this - is people who hate men and authority, I think.

[Justin11]

1 hour ago, Jayson said:

I think being macho is always a good quality for a leader, a husband, a father etc.  Nonetheless, it can go into overkill, where it's not too cool.  You simply come across as being a jerk.  However, people who abuse the male image totally think pushing things to the limit is the way to be.    The outgrowth of this - is people who hate men and authority, I think.

Correct. That isn't a good spirit of a leader. Power is meant for a someone who has the ability to govern his or her subjects without over exacting his or her power when it isn't needed. 

[egghead]

Putin is surely a thug. However, even in our countries more than 90 percent politicians are thugs.