Scummy Amazon Policy That Steals Employees' Personal Game Projects Dropped After Backlash From Devs

[killamch89]

I'm not even surprised - Amazon has been doing the same thing to small manufacturers for years. Stealing their product ideas and rebranding them under the Amazon basics title. Amazon are just as horrible as Google and Apple when it comes to stealing projects from other entities and I'm glad that the devs took a stand against Amazon. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[skyfire]

There is one problem to this mentality though. You are going to use company resources for your side project and to sell them and make money? Yeah. Not everything is corporations are evil part. 

[Crazycrab]

56 minutes ago, skyfire said:

There is one problem to this mentality though. You are going to use company resources for your side project and to sell them and make money? Yeah. Not everything is corporations are evil part. 

 

A software developer working on a project in their spare time does not constitute "using Amazon resources", unless of course they force their developers to use them and not work with anyone outside of Amazon.  Do you not see what they were doing?  It's a self-fulfilling infringement because they know perfectly damn well the policy isn't fair and wouldn't hold up under any scrutiny.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Crazycrab

[skyfire]

7 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

Do you not see what they were doing? 

I do see what they meant. My point was different. staying in office premise. using their resources does sound like gray or dark region for this argument. So I stand by my point. 

[killamch89]

8 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

A software developer working on a project in their spare time does not constitute "using Amazon resources", unless of course they force their developers to use them and not work with anyone outside of Amazon.  Do you not see what they were doing?  It's a self-fulfilling infringement because they know perfectly damn well the policy isn't fair and wouldn't hold up under any scrutiny.

This is an excellent point and if I remember correctly, Google had a similar issue with some devs with a somewhat similar policy. A lot of these huge corporations thrive on being parasites to smaller developers, stealing their ideas and then discarding of them when they have what they wanted.

[m76]

Most corporations have non-compete clauses in their employment contracts, this is nothing new. So again this is something blown out of proportion by ignorant influencers.

Usually you are not allowed to pursue side projects that are in direct competition with your employer. So in this amazon is actually less draconian by allowing them to pursue side projects but reserving the right to assimilate them.  One of my co-workers was fired for founding a company in his name to pursue similar work as my company specializes in. 

[Shagger]

1 hour ago, m76 said:

Most corporations have non-compete clauses in their employment contracts, this is nothing new. So again this is something blown out of proportion by ignorant influencers.

Usually you are not allowed to pursue side projects that are in direct competition with your employer. So in this amazon is actually less draconian by allowing them to pursue side projects but reserving the right to assimilate them.  One of my co-workers was fired for founding a company in his name to pursue similar work as my company specializes in. 

 

Again, you fail to understand that just because it's nothing new or can be considered common, that doesn't doesn't automatically make it right. A few years ago, a couple of my colleges started thier own business manufacturing exhausts for cars using skills they learned from the apprenticeship program they severed with the very company we all worked for. The even bought equipment for the new business with money earned from working at our company having been full time, time served employees for only a couple of years. Did my company penalise them or take action? No. My colleagues just put in thier notice of resignation when thier new business was ready parted ways with the company amicably.

 

Why interests people pursue in thier spare time should be no business of any employer unless it's a direct and deliberate attempt to make money off that company's goods and/or services. Like, and for the sake of it let's use Amazon as the example, selling of Amazon's warehouse stock by yourself or selling prime membership codes and pocketing the money. Amazon are in the game development market, true,  but barley so because they haven't even a had single successfully released game as of yet. So employees that are in thier own free time and using thier own equipment doing game development is none of Amazon's business, just like how it was not my company's right to stop my colleagues stating thier open business using skills my company paid for them to learn. You have a habit of defending every obviously rancid cooperate practice that ever get's discussed here because that's what you're used to. Well, accept my sympathies because you clearly work for some grade A assholes.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Shagger

[Crazycrab]

1 hour ago, m76 said:

Most corporations have non-compete clauses in their employment contracts, this is nothing new. So again this is something blown out of proportion by ignorant influencers.

Usually you are not allowed to pursue side projects that are in direct competition with your employer. So in this amazon is actually less draconian by allowing them to pursue side projects but reserving the right to assimilate them.  One of my co-workers was fired for founding a company in his name to pursue similar work as my company specializes in. 

 

Those a some fair points and I would agree with you, but their is a problem.  In order to just justify that argument you need to PROVE the employee is and/or working for a direct competitor.

 

The mandate that they had here does not need any kind of proof. They could be working in Amazon's game division, but what if they were developing CAD software?  Even if it were for an another game, what if Amazon's game were an 3rd person action MMO and the other project was a single player sidecroller?  Is that really a "Direct competitor"?  That's like saying Budweiser is a direct competitor to Coka Cola because they are both liquids that you drink... I say no.

 

The corporations need to prove it, not just design the system so they don't have to.  Otherwise that's infringement on free liberty.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Crazycrab

[m76]

2 hours ago, Shagger said:

Again, you fail to understand that just because it's nothing new or can be considered common, that doesn't doesn't automatically make it right.

Actually, you miss my point, for the nth time. I'm starting to think it is deliberate. Did I say it was fair? No, I said it is common practice. But again it is painted as if this is something egregious that happens nowhere else but at the amazon developer studio. Which is gross misrepresentation. That's what I take issue with.

2 hours ago, Shagger said:

A few years ago, a couple of my colleges started thier own business manufacturing exhausts for cars using skills they learned from the apprenticeship program they severed with the very company we all worked for. The even bought equipment for the new business with money earned from working at our company having been full time, time served employees for only a couple of years. Did my company penalise them or take action? No. My colleagues just put in thier notice of resignation when thier new business was ready parted ways with the company amicably.

And? What is your point? I didn't say literally every company has a non-compete. But I'm sure they considered doing it after that precedent 😛

They can't penalize employees unless it wsa in their contract that they can't work in the same field while employed there. For example my company also has an anti poaching clause. Meaning I can't go to work to any of their business partners within 2 years of terminating my employment there.

Small businesses are less likely to have them, this is a big corporate thing usually. And before you misconstrue this too, no I'm not saying every corporation has a non-compete.

2 hours ago, Shagger said:

Why interests people pursue in thier spare time should be no business of any employer unless it's a direct and deliberate attempt to make money off that company's goods and/or services.

I didn't say I like this policy. I think employees should retain some intellectual rights even for things they produce on company time. But going by common practice Amazon could outright ban them from pursuing outside projects like my company does, so they are actually making a concession but it is represented as the most evil ever.

2 hours ago, Shagger said:

Like, and for the sake of it let's use Amazon as the example, selling of Amazon's warehouse stock by yourself or selling prime membership codes and pocketing the money. Amazon are in the game development market, true,  but barley so because they haven't even a had single successfully released game as of yet. So employees that are in thier own free time and using thier own equipment doing game development is none of Amazon's business, just like how it was not my company's right to stop my colleagues stating thier open business using skills my company paid for them to learn. You have a habit of defending every obviously rancid cooperate practice that ever get's discussed here because that's what you're used to. Well, accept my sympathies because you clearly work for some grade A assholes.

It is amazon's business if they create a title that is in direct competition with amazon. They could actually be taking inspiration from work, or withholding their ideas to implement in their own project instead of the company's. It's a clear conflict of interest.

[Crazycrab]

@m76 I don't know if you have ever worked at Amazon, I have and I can assure you the attitude they displayed here is concurrent with their attitude in general.  They treat people like condoms, use em then throw em away. To tell the truth, that doesn't even really bother me.  It would piss me off greatly if I was working there and had a weekend job at a Just-Eat Kabab Takeaway and they told me they deserve some of the money from that, because I was a delivery driver.  They obviously don't and I explained why already.

 

I know your not stupid, but you've clearly got your nose to covered in brown to see the truth.  These corporations don't give a fly-fishing fuck about about anybody that works for them.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Crazycrab

[m76]

14 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

@m76 I don't know if you have ever worked at Amazon, I have and I can assure you the attitude they displayed here is concurrent with their attitude in general.  They treat people like condoms, use em then throw em away. To tell the truth, that doesn't even really bother me.  It would piss me off greatly if I was working there and had a weekend job at a Just-Eat Kabab Takeaway and they told me they deserve some of the money from that, because I was a delivery driver.  They obviously don't and I explained why already.

 

I know your not stupid, but you've clearly got your nose to covered in brown to see the truth.  These corporations don't give a fly-fishing fuck about about anybody that works for them.

You obviously didn't even read my entire post. Shame.

Just because amazon treats employees in the shipping department poorly doesn't mean we can lie about non-compete agreements being unique to their developer department. If the ends justify the means, then we are no better than them: SCUM.

Full disclosure: I hate amazon, I think they have too much power as a corporation. And I avoid using them when there are viable alternatives. Yeah that's how off the mark you are when you accuuse me of licking their ass. 

But I also hate clickbait farming youtubers, who are too lazy to do even basic research for their videos.

Edited August 17, 2021 by m76

[Shagger]

8 minutes ago, m76 said:

You obviously didn't even read my entire post. Shame.

Just because amazon treats employees in the shipping department poorly doesn't mean we can lie about non-compete agreements being unique to their developer department. If the ends justify the means, then we are no better than them: SCUM.

Full disclosure: I hate amazon, I think they have too much power as a corporation. And I avoid using them when there are viable alternatives. Yeah that's how off the mark you are when you accuuse me of licking their ass. 

But I also hate clickbait farming youtubers, who are too lazy to do even basic research for their videos.

 

The problem is not that people don't read your posts, it's your inability to explain your position very clearly. Nobody is going to assume that you disapprove of Amazon and the corporate policy's they have in force when you spend half a thread defending them. Your other problem, and it's another frequent occurrence, is your inability to understand the difference between someone criticising your point and criticising yourself. What we were addressing is the problems with the points you made, not your overall view on a cooperation that you didn't even state clearly in the first place. If you can't debate in a mature manner without taking everything to heart I suggest you stop debating.

[killamch89]

21 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

@m76 I don't know if you have ever worked at Amazon, I have and I can assure you the attitude they displayed here is concurrent with their attitude in general.  They treat people like condoms, use em then throw em away. 

It's true - they treat their workers as disposables. As a matter of fact, most of their delivery workers get fired by a new AI system if something happens along the route even when it wasn't their fault. I'll have to go look up the article from a news report. I am surprised this even flew under the radar.

[Empire]

Talking about Amazon being scummy. How many of you have used Amazon Music and had Unlimited? I never wanted it, but when I went to press on an artist on my screen, they popped up a trial a second before I tapped the screen, and immediately signed me up. I tried cancelling it on both my phone and computer multiple times over multiple days, the confirm cancellation button doesn't work... But the remind me button right next to it works... I had to go to customer support and tell them to cancel my subscription in order to do it. And this isn't something new, this has been a thing for years. The confirm cancellation button just doesn't work if you press on it...

[killamch89]

14 hours ago, Empire said:

Talking about Amazon being scummy. How many of you have used Amazon Music and had Unlimited? I never wanted it, but when I went to press on an artist on my screen, they popped up a trial a second before I tapped the screen, and immediately signed me up. I tried cancelling it on both my phone and computer multiple times over multiple days, the confirm cancellation button doesn't work... But the remind me button right next to it works... I had to go to customer support and tell them to cancel my subscription in order to do it. And this isn't something new, this has been a thing for years. The confirm cancellation button just doesn't work if you press on it...

I've had my fair share of bad experiences with Amazon on top of noticing their practice of stealing the innovative products that's being sold on their platform, recreating them and selling them under the amazon basics brand for way cheaper effectively being anti-competitive.