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Shagger

Gamers Are Mad That Thor is Fat in God of War Ragnarok. Well... He Was, According to Actual Myth.

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2 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

 

The Vikings did engage in Slavery, but wasn't quite the same system that we think of other European countries doing centuries later.  They gathered people up from raids and traded them throughout Europe and enslavement was also sometimes used as punishment for crimes.

 

So it's true there were some black people living in Scandinavia at the time, but it's not a correct assumption that these people were slaves.  It's possible that some were of course but it's not the same racial association that we have with the slave traders that operated in Europe and America centuries later.

Yeah - I actually wasn't saving all the black people in Scandinavia were all slaves - No they are not. I mentioned about some slaves becoming Freeborn after servitude and they get married as Freeborn, any of their black offsprings aren't slaves. 

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8 hours ago, Shagger said:

 

This behaviour from gamers irritates in a huge way. People like m76 (this time I'm not using the mention function because that triggered him) will always claim they're defending creative liberty by calling out inclusion. The problem with thier argument is that they pick and choose what counts as creative liberty and what doesn't to suit themselves. To these people, a game developer's design can only be a creative liberty when it's something that those people themselves feel comfortable with, anything that deviates from that is "political". They would never accuse a developer of "pandering" or the design being "political" in nature when it's a design they were comfortable with or approve of, even if it didn't make any sense and actually was political or justifiably controversial (like if it were whitewashing, for example). So you see, the "creative liberty" argument is a lie to desguise the person making the argument's own prejudices. In this case with Angrboda, that prejudice is racism. As the article points out, the character is a Jotun, so there are not real limitations or patterns to adhere to when it come to the design, so why can't she be black girl and have that be the very creative liberty these ass-holes claim to be defending? So you're right @Heatman, this is totally about people simply being racist as well as hypocrites.

 

This new God of War is looking pretty interesting. I didn't even know a new one was coming out till this topic. You are right that a Jotun doesn't really have limitations so I think Angrboda shouldn't have much of a controversy. The only problem I would have when adding a black person in lore like that is if the black skin, prejudice slang, or features of an ethnic group are represented as a villain that you must kill and eliminate. That has been the pattern in entertainment. So if they made all the Jotun black and made them villains, I would have a problem with it. But that doesn't look to be the case here, so to make an entity black that usually is blue and have people complain that that skin color doesn't belong at all is selective creative freedom. From a brief lore lesson on reading a little about it, some of the Gods are descendants of the Jotnar. So maybe that is the real reason they get upset of a black Jotun. 

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20 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

This new God of War is looking pretty interesting. I didn't even know a new one was coming out till this topic. You are right that a Jotun doesn't really have limitations so I think Angrboda shouldn't have much of a controversy. The only problem I would have when adding a black person in lore like that is if the black skin, prejudice slang, or features of an ethnic group are represented as a villain that you must kill and eliminate. That has been the pattern in entertainment. So if they made all the Jotun black and made them villains, I would have a problem with it. But that doesn't look to be the case here, so to make an entity black that usually is blue and have people complain that that skin color doesn't belong at all is selective creative freedom. From a brief lore lesson on reading a little about it, some of the Gods are descendants of the Jotnar. So maybe that is the real reason they get upset of a black Jotun. 

 

I'm going to disagree with you slightly. Game dev's and even movie/TV show producers shouldn't be afraid to cast minorities as the villains. So long as the villainy is rooted through the character, like who they are and what they do/don't do rather than what they are, and they're still portrayed in a dignified, non-stereotypical manner, I see no issue with minorities being cast as villains.

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14 minutes ago, Shagger said:

 

I'm going to disagree with you slightly. Game dev's and even movie/TV show producers shouldn't be afraid to cast minorities as the villains. So long as the villainy is rooted through the character, like who they are and what they do/don't do rather than what they are, and they're still portrayed in a dignified, non-stereotypical manner, I see no issue with minorities being cast as villains.

Exactly; if they personalize the character you can see who they are and not what they are. But when they are impersonalized as just fodder, then I take issue with it because that way of thinking can be embedded into people’s minds if that’s all they repeatedly see.

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9 hours ago, Shagger said:

 

This behaviour from gamers irritates in a huge way. People like m76 (this time I'm not using the mention function because that triggered him) will always claim they're defending creative liberty by calling out inclusion. The problem with thier argument is that they pick and choose what counts as creative liberty and what doesn't to suit themselves. To these people, a game developer's design can only be a creative liberty when it's something that those people themselves feel comfortable with, anything that deviates from that is "political". They would never accuse a developer of "pandering" or the design being "political" in nature when it's a design they were comfortable with or approve of, even if it didn't make any sense and actually was political or justifiably controversial (like if it were whitewashing, for example). So you see, the "creative liberty" argument is a lie to desguise the person making the argument's own prejudices. In this case with Angrboda, that prejudice is racism. As the article points out, the character is a Jotun, so there are not real limitations or patterns to adhere to when it come to the design, so why can't she be black girl and have that be the very creative liberty these ass-holes claim to be defending? So you're right @Heatman, this is totally about people simply being racist as well as hypocrites.

 

I'm not surprised seeing we have both racist and hypocrites amongst us in the gaming community, it's something that's rooted deep in almost everything today, even sports and it's very hard to eliminate it. 

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2 hours ago, Heatman said:

I'm not surprised seeing we have both racist and hypocrites amongst us in the gaming community, it's something that's rooted deep in almost everything today, even sports and it's very hard to eliminate it. 

Most of the racism in first world countries is systematic so you'd have to reform those systems to even get any meaningful change...

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9 hours ago, killamch89 said:

Most of the racism in first world countries is systematic so you'd have to reform those systems to even get any meaningful change...

Yeah - it's something that is very important to be handled with all efforts to root out racism but it's eaten deep in the world that it's going to be very hard to get rid of it. 

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12 hours ago, Head_Hunter said:

Racism is a problem indeed, their is no place you can't find racism, you'll find it in gaming, real soccer, workplace, in the foreigners country etc. I just hope racism is tarnished cos it has killed many people today. 

Seriously - It's actually what we wake up to see in the world today. As far as I'm concerned, it's almost going to be impossible to end racism. 

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